Transcript

Monk Seraphim: Saint Mark of Ephesus, in the last quote you mentioned, in his last letter, says “neither to pray together nor to concelebrate”. Therefore, people should not come to us and say that “common prayer” is only when you concelebrate, or that the problem will arise only when Orthodox concelebrate with the Papists or others.

And “not to commune” that is, to take part in the services and to pray together – yes, it is sinful; it is a sin. Those who commune with heretics, place themselves on the same level with them whether they serve the Liturgy together or pray together. And it’s not just this.

The other thing I would like to say is that Fr. Theodoros has known these things for decades, and I remember at least 15 years ago, based on the things he was telling me and we were discussing, he always used to say: “I do not want to die in communion with these people since they are unrepentant, since they change in nothing. I do not want to die in communion with them. At some point we must separate from them,” which is what eventually happened, glory to God.

And what is very important for me, especially now, because a certain need has arisen and I am gathering material on cessation of commemoration, not only based on the 15th Canon of the Council in Constantinople (the so-called “First-Second” Council), but also based on other sources. Pay attention to the point here: the 15th Canon of the First-Second Council, although it has great authority, perhaps does not yet have as much authority as to override the 31st Apostolic Canon, which oversees the cessation of commemoration for many more reasons.

Still, it does have great authority because, if the Eighth Ecumenical Council is recognized, the First-Second Council will go along with it—they are considered one council (from 879). In that case, the 15th Canon becomes a Canon of an Ecumenical Council.

Fr. Theodoros: They recognized it, Father, in Kolymbari.

Monk Seraphim: More or less, yes… an attempt… in quotation marks…

Fr. Theodoros: They themselves recognised it! (laughs)

Monk Seraphim: And the 15th Canon of the First-Second allows one to wall off only from someone who himself openly (“bare-headed”) publicly preaches heresy in the Church. But what do we see today? We see that in earlier times, the Constantinopolitans and in this fore-mentioned case as in other cases as well, not only fence themselves off from those who openly preach bare-headed heresy, but also from those who were in communion with them.

Those parishioners who did not go to the priest, did not go to him and did not bring him prosphora for the Divine Liturgy, as Father Theodoros told us during his discourse, did so not because he himself preached heresy, but because he attended the procession for the enthronement of the Latin-minded new Patriarch Metrophanes (who was like an ecumenist today).

Is this a unique case? No, it is not unique. Joseph Bryennios, at the beginning of the 15th century, before the fall of Constantinople, said that the Church of Constantinople would not unite with the Cypriots who wanted union. Those people had an Orthodox mindset, they had not joined the Latins. But because of the Latin oppression in Cyprus, they were in partial communion: they prayed together with the Latins, they recognized the Pope as bishop, etc. (though they did not commemorate him), and they did not have a full… they did not have liturgical communion, they did not receive Holy Communion together but separately.

Nevertheless, Constantinople did not accept union with them. And these were not Latin-minded, they were not ecumenists, we might say, they were people forced to be in communion with them(the Latins). And Joseph Bryennios says: “If one is in communion with the Latins, have no communion with them.” If someone is wearing vestments and prays together with them (the Latins) do not have communion with them. And Constantinople did not have communion with them. Two hundred years earlier, Patriarch Germanos II of Constantinople said the same things again regarding the Cypriot issue: “Do not receive the blessing of priests who are in communion with the Latins, for otherwise you will incur the same damnation as they have.”

So if you go and receive a blessing because you have not fenced yourself from someone who prays together with the Latins, you will share the same damnation with him. Therefore, the Church has applied stricter measures and stricter practices than the 15th Canon of the First-Second Council.

Saint Gregory Palamas himself, at the end of his second reply to Patriarch John Kalekas, who was neither a heretic nor openly defending heresy, but supported it in another way, by trying to distort and present in a distorted manner the decisions of the Hesychast Council of 1341, that is, by undermining the Orthodox response and shifting the matter elsewhere. He said: Barlaam was not condemned for theological issues, but was condemned for procedural matters and issues of the canons. Saint Gregory Palamas considered this distortion to be heresy, and what did he say? That no one can be Orthodox who has not separated from Patriarch Kalekas. Let those who think they are Orthodox because they themselves believe correctly, but who nevertheless remain in communion with those who Latinize and promote ecumenism, hear this. Thank you!

Fr. Theodoros: Yes, Father.

Well, is it so hard to understand? I mean, I say that I have never obliged anyone, neither priest nor layperson, to wall off. I have not made anyone do that. But from what I say, can they not understand what they ought to do? You laypeople, you must fence yourselves from them, with all of them, with all of them . You must not attend to…. Go, for example, to Father Theodoros, or to some others… I won’t mention names now. This is the solution.

Until now, we used to say that there are some clergy of Orthodox conviction who do not accept all these things and, by ‘oikonomia’, you could also go there. But this creates corruption and complacency. For example: “Father, I know such-and-such clergyman; he has an Orthodox mindset…” an Orthodox mindset in words only. The only action justified by the canons of the Church for us priests, as a reaction and a form of resistance, is this: fencing off (cessation of commemoration). And for you laypeople, it is to follow the clergy who have ceased commemoration, and to have no communion with the others.

You saw how they reacted in Constantinople: they did not bring him offerings, they did not go to the church! Do not go to church. Imagine, in your own parish (I don’t know where you are), imagine if in your parish there was such guidance, so that the priest came and found half the people there, or only a quarter. He would say: “What happened here?”

But when you all go, and they have the faithful, they say, “Ah, everything’s fine, the people are with us!” The un-catechised people, the uninformed people, don’t know and they keep going. But whoever knows and has find out must decisively, without hesitation cut off (from evil)!

People from the public: Yes, but there are also clergy who react…

Fr. Theodoros: React? How do they react? They react with words…

Not in words, but in deeds, as we said… Thank you very much!

Monk Seraphim: With what Father Theodoros said, Saint Mark of Ephesus through Father Theodoros, and with what I said, we are not abolishing ‘oikonomia’. ‘Oikonomia’ can be applied; that is, one may go to priests who did not fence themselves but they confess. But we must know that ‘akribeia’ – and we have never denied this – is to have no communion even with them. That is ‘akribeia’!

We ourselves did not apply it, others applied it. We judged that it should not be applied. But ‘oikonomia’ also has certain time limits. The situation is getting worse, and naturally, as it gets worse, we must take more drastic measures, because complacency will lead where it always leads: we become complacent, and we end up in communion with heresy.

But this requires some sacrifice. Of course, you cannot find priests who have ceased commemoration everywhere, nor can every priest cease commemoration. What can we do? If someone is 500 kilometers away from any priest who has ceased commemoration, they will necessarily have to apply ‘oikonomia’. But where there are priests who have ceased commemoration, and you can go to them, go there. Glory to God, here in Thessaloniki there are such priests, and elsewhere as well. So, that is how ‘oikonomia’ is applied.